Nomiki Petrolla, Founder of PDS Lab: Building As A Mother of 4, Creating Access for Women in Tech, Setting Female Founders Up for Success & More

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: I love doing events with other female tech founders. It fuels me and it actually makes me a much better mother because I'm thriving professionally. And I feel that I have two purposes.

One is to make a difference. and the other one is be a mother and teach my children how to be good people in this world. and if I love what I do and I'm thriving there, I'm a better mother. And if I have patience as a mother, I'm a better business owner. So it really comes down to what are your priorities and do you love what you're doing?

And if you can figure those things out, it's a matter of just doing it Well, wonderful. Thank you so much, Nomiki, for joining me today.

Abby, for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: You know, I feel like it was written in the stars because, um, my co founder, Brian, actually, when I first mentioned to him the idea of starting this podcast, he said pretty instantaneously he knew somebody in the back of his mind that might be a great [00:01:00] guest. And I don't know if it was So much that he wanted you to be on the show or he just out of the goodness of his heart wanted us to meet because, you know, it's really tough being a female founder in tech and we're a little few and far between.

So I think maybe in his mind, he figured one way or another, it was good for us to cross paths. And I'm so glad we did.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: absolutely. Brian's been so kind. We met a while back and he's been so supportive in the process. So I'm so glad that he introduced us.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: I'm equally as glad because there's a lot, there's, we hear more conversation around female founders, right? Like, I feel like a lot of people themselves today call themselves founders or entrepreneurs. It's funny. I've had to have this conversation with Brian a couple of times in our heads.

We think of founder, like the word founder is very tech adjacent or startup adjacent, but I think the word has become a little more ubiquitous, which is female. Incredible. I think it's amazing that so many different people are starting so many different types of businesses nowadays and that [00:02:00] ability has been democratized.

But what that also means is sometimes I feel like I've met a founder who can relate directly to my experience and they can't

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: hmm.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: because maybe they're working, building a direct to consumer product or a retail product. And it's not quite the same as building a tech product, especially as a woman. So the fact that you you know, you're, you're very much focused on helping women enter into the tech space is that I am firmly within that niche.

And I think it's a niche that needs to be much more broadly explored.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah, I agree. Um, I, I learned that process too, that founder was starting to be more well known across a lot of industries. I, people reach out to me, oh, you're helping female founders, but they're in CPG. Like I just had one

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yes.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: that was. Building a beauty product. And I'm like, I can't help you. Um, but I do have the resources because of that, that I can introduce them to someone else.

But the you're right that the term founder has been so broadly used in the past year or [00:03:00] two. So I definitely make sure that I say female tech founders or non technical founders that are trying to get into tech, um, when I'm using my messaging because of that.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah, I think it's, I've learned I've had to refine the messaging too, because I never want to diminish the work that someone's doing starting a business of their own, but I just, I really pine for other women who've been in a room in a meeting where she's the only woman, you know, who can relate directly to those experiences.

Um, and it is so common in software and technology. So I think you've, you've really identified a problem statement that needs solving with your work. and I'd love to get into the work that you're doing with PDS lab, but what I love to do initially is to get into a bit of your backstory, understand what drew you to tech and drew you to building products in the first place.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Well, going way back and what got me into tech, I started college with a business degree in mind. I wanted to go into design, [00:04:00] but my parents at the time, 2010 or 2006 at the time, graphic design or going into design wasn't really well known for having jobs that I could really excel in. So my parents were like, no, you need to go on to get a business degree. And two years after going to business classes, I remember coming to my mom. I got a D minus in accounting and God bless that, that teacher's soul, that professor who gave me the D minus and not the F. And I came home crying saying, my brain does not this way. Like, which is ironic because now I love that stuff.

I love accounting. I love economics and all that. But back then I wasn't learning that way. And I told them I have to switch my major. I started college all over again. Literally I was in college for five and a half years because I knew that that's where I wanted to go. And when I was building out my portfolio, I became so interested in interactive media.

And at the time that's, what's the term for Technology and students because product management, all those [00:05:00] words were not as common for getting into a tech job after degree. And I fell in love with building websites and designing for them, web design, et cetera. And I found a company that I wanted to work with.

And the company was called branding brand back in 2000. Again, this is 2010, 2011. I got my first job there and. I knew I wanted to work there. I hounded the people because I was like, I wanna design websites for you. They were designing. Back then, mobile websites were not reactive, so we were, that company pioneered what a mobile website was back in 2010 and 11, and it was crazy because I became so obsessed with building. That was my first. dipping into the sand of what is this technology? What is actually out there? And I've been very fortunate in my 10 year building technology that people kept putting me under their wing, allowing me to test things, trying things out. I had [00:06:00] a very hungry thirst for solving problems and wanting to learn. So I think that actually helped me a lot in getting different roles. I mean, I bounced around from design to QA to analytics, to biz ops, to marketing. I did it all because I wanted to know everything. So with that past 15 years in building technology, I've always had someone that said, yeah, come work with me, or I see that you can do this.

to help me design a new product, get it to market. And because of my design background, it's actually helped me expand. The services, the sectors that I worked in, because you're not actually niche down into, Oh, I consult for financial technology. The best, I know how it works in

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Okay. Thank you.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: when you're designing, you just have to see things broadly and how to solve problems from a backend perspective.

It's not really about. You know, best practices in a specific industry. And I really, I have to thank that degree for allowing me to problem solve seeing design systems and bringing [00:07:00] together, okay, how does this actually work for the consumer? or the business that is going to use the I was also really privileged in the way that I've had access to men in tech that had deep pockets that gave me a chance. I had a consulting agency and I'm, on year 10 of consulting on the side of my W twos, and I had so many men that were like, Hey, I wanna hire you to do this. You came referred from an engineer or a developer, they said, you can do all these and work with our devs. Can you build this product I'll pay you X, Y, and Z to get this out to market. And catapulted my learning because I, not only was I doing that in Ned to W2 at a startup, but I was also doing One on one with founders all the time and those founders, they've went on to exit for over 60 million, within year to your timeframe because they saw a problem that they wanted to design it and get it out to market, um, and 220 million in funding.

So I've had my hands. tied to [00:08:00] so many different sectors, but products that were solving problems from people that gave me opportunity. that is something that I realized was a major privilege in the past two years. Um, I actually thank my parents for this cause they're both entrepreneurs. I also have four brothers, so, I'm not as jaded by the male demographic in general. Because I have four brothers that made fun of me for my entire life, right? Like, so it does, I have very thick skin and I know how to brush it off really fast. Like I don't give a flying what people think about me and it's because of them. So thank you for brothers who beat me down all the time. Um, but I think that really actually helped me.

Communicate with both men and women when building and helping women see opportunity. And the past two years, I left a job, which I love them so much. They were probably the most intelligent people I've ever worked with. They're pioneering, um, artificial intelligence right now. And I loved working with them, but. I felt I wasn't [00:09:00] actually serving myself. Um, we had a traumatic life event that actually led to me deciding I need to leave. I need to figure out what can I do for myself. I have three daughters and I kept saying like, What do I have to show for them? Like, what, what am I going to say to them that I built myself to tell them?

Cause I'm always teaching them, be confident, go do what you want to do. but I'm not even doing that. I'm just working for other people that are doing that. So. It sort of made me take a step back and say, what, what impact do I actually want to have in life on my family, on my daughters?

How am I going to teach them? And I decided, okay, I'm going all in on my consulting so I can figure out what I want to do. And in that timeframe, I was working with female tech founders primarily. And when I was doing that, It became so glaringly obvious the disparity between not just funding, but access, access to resources, to the networks, to the accelerators, access to everything, to learn how to build technology. So [00:10:00] when I talk to people and I teach, not a rocket scientist. The skills that I have, I learned by being resourceful, very scrappy. I'm not an engineer, but I can communicate very well to engineers because I figured out, Oh, how do they communicate? What do they need to actually do their job really well?

How do I build systems to them to succeed? But in addition to me succeeding and seeing my vision through with a low margin for error. And I realized The women that were hiring me to work with them, they could do this. It's not rocket science. They just have to be really willing to get into the weeds, get their hands dirty and solve problems So the lab was born because I wanted to show other tech founders how to do this. my, it's a, I call it a product accelerator because we're pre accelerator where a non dilutive, cash based business, primarily to de risk founders, tech founders that want to build technology before they go out and, you know, pitch to an agency, pitch to investor [00:11:00] to get shot down and stop in their track.

So really we're trying to teach them the foundation of product development so that they set themselves up for success. For the longevity of their tech startup, not just, Hey, build this in no code tool. Like we really about you the process so you can set yourself up for success. And that's sort of what led me to this long journey of how am I going to help more women get access, not just to money to funding, but to building products so they can actually get customers to.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Wow. There's so much I could unpack there, I want to start with nomenclature and I want to start with what you mean by non dilutive because speaking of access, I feel like a lot of women in particular feel that the startup realm is not built for them because it has language. It has a language of its own and non dilutive is very specific to the tech ecosystem.

So could you explain for our listeners what you mean by non dilutive? non dilutive equity You know, really distill that down in [00:12:00] very simple terms and then explain why you choose, you've chosen to go that route with the, with the founders in your own lab.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: what I was learning in the past couple years of I've talked to thousands at this point of female tech founders or aspiring female tech founders is that they immediately go to a dev agency, get a huge scoping and estimate for their idea because they don't know actually how to formulate it. The second one is they think they need to go to get a tech co founder. Or they need to find investments or funding and not every business needs to be venture backed. Uh, that's a whole other topic, but when they do those things, when they find someone technical to work with them, or they go and try to find investments, they're diluting themselves from equity, meaning they're giving away. Their business between 25 and 50 percent at the early idea stages. And now they own half their business when they don't know if their business has legs to run on, right? They're just learning to crawl. So I've, I've flipped my whole business model on its head and I'm doing the opposite of what [00:13:00] everyone told me to do.

Everyone said, when you're working with these early idea stage companies, You need to take a couple percentage points, of their business because you're helping them get there and that you might have a huge return. And while I agree that that's correct, I already know that a few founders that I'm working with are going to blast it out of the water, but I don't believe that at this stage, I deserve that in addition to. I want to save them for the long run. So they have that success. So right now, when they go get funding immediately, if they've already built their MVP, they've gone through the trenches and they've learned the hard way for one or two years, and then they might get precede 500, maybe a million dollars in funding.

And they have to give away a ton of their Business. So what I do is I say, no, I'm going to help you at the fraction of the cost. Instead, mine's a cashflow business where you pay me for a certain amount of money for a six month timeframe. I'll teach you everything you need to know. We will launch your product in that [00:14:00] timeframe.

I do not own your IP. I can't share your trade secrets. but I also own, Oh, no equity in your business, but I will give you as many resources and access. So that's access to the VCs that I work with to the network, the developers that I have in the back of my pocket to say, Hey, they can help you. It's also to de risk them. So my whole mission. And when I say access, I mean, It's access to people like me that can help you without diluting yourselves. And I think that more businesses like us are the ones that are going to have to make the change for women to get the funding, to get the opportunity, because say they gave away so much already.

And then they say, all right, I want to go get funding. Guess what? Investors are questioning those decisions.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: And I think if we can de risk and mount, A female type founders early in the game so that they set themselves up for the long run, then they'll have more success

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: And I think it's such a slippery slope. a shareholder taking [00:15:00] equity is so tempting. And I think a lot of founders in the beginning, especially if this is their first startup, that's so appealing. And then, like you said, if you give up a large portion of your company, and then later down the road, you are at a point where you want to take on potentially additional investors, they might look at what's called your cap table, your capitalization table, and see that a lot of the companies already accounted for.

And that could greatly reduce the likelihood that you can bring on additional investors when you need them most. So I think that is so, so critically important. And I love the approach you're taking to it because Early days are when, are when founders are most vulnerable to make decisions that might hurt them later on in their business.

So I completely love the approach you're taking there. I have another question for you. and maybe this is a personal question because my setup is, I am what's called a non technical founder. So I don't do any programming or coding for RevScience. My [00:16:00] co founder is a technical founder. he builds the product from like a programming standpoint.

So he does everything technical and programming and I do everything basically non technical. What do you think of that setup? And you can be fully transparent here because You know, if somebody a female founder and she's really looking to have her ideas fully realized and see her product come to life, but she thinks she needs to partner with, it might just happen to be a male co founder to do that Do you think that's a good setup or do you think that poses any risks to female founders?

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: absolutely do. at CB insights, first round capital, the data suggests that if you have a technical co founder. Your chances of success or receiving funding are higher. But my angle is, I believe that you need one, but you don't need one now. you need to get to a point where you've exhausted all of your learning to the point where you feel friction and you say, okay, I've done all the discovery.

I validated this. I have the prototype ready. I've got a [00:17:00] wait list going. I need to actually go build this thing. You've done all of the things that you're capable of doing to the point of, okay, now I have no choice, but to go build this. My other on that is that a lot of, when I say the word access, it's also to knowledge of what resources are at your disposal. So, so many founders that I talk to, they have ideas. And then when we trim the fat of what that idea and the MVP could be, that can actually solve the problem. you can build it with no code tools. There are automation software out there. There's no code building like bubble flutter flow There's all these software that you can go build something on your own to go test before you say, okay, now I want to dilute myself, bring someone in that can build something from scratch, solve a problem that I technically cannot do. And that involves engineering in the backend, whether that's data science or backend or front end UI, um, But I really believe that founders should exhaust their resources to the point [00:18:00] of friction before they dilute themselves, because there's so much learning that goes on beyond the technical expertise. And when you bring a technical person on early on, you have to date them for a long time, but also you are giving away your idea and now you're opening the door for you to have less control. So as soon as someone else comes in, if you do that too early, they can start building things because you don't understand what you're doing yet and it can morph your whole product.

And I've seen people break up with their partners for a lot of these reasons, because they don't see eye to eye. They might have gotten someone in for equity too early, or they just realized, You know what? We don't have the same mission here. We're not on the same path. This isn't a good fit. So I believe that yes, you do likely need a technical person as a co founder or at least a high equity stake in your business to help you realize things. But I, I challenged founders to to the point of friction before [00:19:00] you reach that point so that you don't dilute yourself and lose your, your IP before you have to.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah, your intellectual property. And when we say MVP, we mean minimal, minimum viable product. just for, for folks who might not be as familiar with those terms, because this is your first go around at doing this. That's incredible advice, Nomiki. I guess my next question would be for women out there who can't even conceive of a world where they can start this on their own.

what would you tell them? If you could.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Um, I hear, I talked to a lot of women, like 20, 30 aspiring female tech founders.

So instead of pushing them a certain way, I give them advice on, Hey, check out these different tools. Check out how this startup is doing it. Try to do your research, but Before you get to that point of, I don't know what I'm doing and stop yourself and your tracks and guide them where to go. [00:20:00] What's ironic about that is I can tell you to go to these websites, but they've never heard these websites before.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Exactly. Yep.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: new to them because they have not been in the tech ecosystem the ones that have been in marketing or sales and are starting to build their, their tech startup, have a leg up on the ones that might be stay at or ones that are social workers, um, or in retail at fashion, et cetera, but have not been attuned to what is this whole tech world and knowing the basics.

So finding out what those basics are, I give them, websites that they can go research from inspiration, try to get introduced slowly so that they can start asking questions to themselves. Oh, what does that lead to? And be curious. I think one of the skills that every tech founder has to have in order to succeed is being infinitely curious about everything. Go down the rabbit hole. You know, we always say, when we are in meetings, don't go down the rabbit hole. We don't have time for that, but I actually really [00:21:00] encourage non technical founders to do that because the amount of learning that happens in that rabbit hole will compound. that'll lead to things that they never knew.

And then they'll find new products, the whole new software, new learnings, new people, and it opens their world.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Absolutely. I think too. I think some of the most successful founders I know have this insatiable curiosity and curiosity is also how you end up learning how to teach yourself things because you just You develop mastery of things on your own rather than deferring to other people.

And I think that's such a core ability to have as a founder, whether you're a co founder or solo founder, you're going to have to wear so many hats. And you have to have a willingness and a genuine desire to wear those hats and to learn how to do so. So that, that completely tracks switching gears a little bit.

You are mom and you are not just, yes, we, before, before we started recording, we, you had donned your daughter's, headphones and it warmed my heart because, I don't have children yet, but it's absolutely on my [00:22:00] own product, my own life roadmap. You know, it's it's been really existential for me because, and I'm excited to speak to someone like you about this, being a mom of four, I hear a lot in startup circles with other founder circles, this phrase, my startup is my baby.

My business is my baby. And I'm not going to lie. I hear this a lot from men and male founders. And Anytime I hear someone say that it kind of breaks my heart. Because it makes me think that I have to choose that if I want to be a really successful founder. I can't have children of my own because something's got to give either.

I'm not going to be able to be as, good of a founder as good a mother. So I would just, I would just love to unpack your thoughts on this because I think you just single handedly subvert so much of that thinking, but it's gotta be hard, right? So if you could just, if you're okay with it, speak openly to [00:23:00] your experience as a founder and a mother, a father, For that would be so incredible.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Um, I love talking about this topic because if it wasn't for my children, I probably would not be here right now. I have four that are eight, five, three, and one. So mine are still really young. And it wasn't until after I had my last child that I saw. I felt confident that I can go out on my own because truly I was a vessel for babies.

I was nursing. I was at home with a couple of them. We've gone through some traumatic health events with a couple of children. So it wasn't until we were done having children, that I really felt, okay, I can now lean into less. Breeding and more mothering and also step outside into my comfort zone of what does that look like while also running a business? And I also don't like the phrase of my startup is my baby, because unless you have babies, [00:24:00] you don't really understand the difference. Um,

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: a hundred percent.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: can do them together. I, you know, I'm doing it. So, and I've worked with so many moms that also do it. I also hate the term work life balance. There is no such thing as balance. It's priorities and the priority shift every single day. So for example, yesterday I was throwing up in the morning, watching my kids trying to get them breakfast. God only knows what happened, I had to take 30 minutes after they dropped my husband to thank God he's the best partner, them off. Take care of myself, take a Zofran, suck it up, go on my meetings, finish at three, take my kid, three out of four of my kids from three 30 to seven 30 to gymnastics, come home, bathe them with my husband, get them all ready for bed, put them to bed by eight 30, go onto my computer from eight 30 to 10 30 work until I'm like, okay, I've got the things ready for the next day and continue. So it's all about priority and. [00:25:00] Someone told me once that there's three things that you're always juggling that are going to be top and any more than that, it's too much. And the things that are always, I'm always juggling in terms of prioritization are my family. So my kids and my husband, my business, and either my mental or my physical health.

And I will say that my ventral and physical are probably on the low totem pole right now, but those are the three that are always kind of in the juggling realm of what am I doing? I guess if a mom is trying to figure out, can I do this? The answer is yes. It's really just. What are you passionate about does that drive you to the existence of, I want to stay up late and do all these things I wouldn't do those things.

If I didn't love what I was doing, I truly wake up and I love going to work. I love having meetings. I love doing events with other female tech founders. It fuels me and it actually makes me a much better mother because I'm thriving professionally. And I feel that I have two purposes.

One is to make a difference. and the [00:26:00] other one is be a mother and teach my children how to be good people in this world. and if I love what I do and I'm thriving there, I'm a better mother. And if I have patience as a mother, I'm a better business owner. So it really comes down to what are your priorities and do you love what you're doing?

And if you can figure those things out, it's a matter of just doing it and not giving a what people think.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: The point about energy and having boundless energy when you're doing what you love, I think is so key because I've worked in very corporate environments. I worked at probably the best company in the world to work out when you have a child and. I didn't have the energy then that I have now I feel like sometimes, and it's, you know, my husband doesn't love this, but I can work 14 hour days and not get tired.

I couldn't do that at my corporate jobs. I felt so de energized by some of the work I was doing just because I wasn't making impact in the ways I wanted to make [00:27:00] impact. And so. what I know to be true of motherhood is it's not a lot of sleep. you're pulled in a lot of directions and energy is a commodity.

Like energy is, the biggest asset you have. And if you're doing work that actually gives you more energy, I could totally see how that would make you a better mother. Yeah.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: You know, a great example is we have four kids, right? So it's. Logistically chaos. We run a circus in our house. We have also have two dogs. So it's just chaos all the time. when so many times I'll have a mother that has one child and say it like, well, how are you doing it? And what I like to tell them is however many you right now is the hardest that you will feel ever going to be. But once you add more to your plate, you figure out how to actually manage your time and distribute your energy across the board where everyone is still taken care of. So it feels really daunting. And while you don't have children, it feels daunting of introducing that. But what [00:28:00] happens is right now, it's the hardest part that you're figuring out, how do I distribute energy?

How do I distribute care across the board? As soon as you introduce it. It becomes automatic. And then if you introduce one more, it becomes automatic. It's just a matter of being able to mentally compartmentalize what's on your plate and execute.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking as you were talking about it, because it is inconceivable right now for me to conceive of a world where I would have a child in addition to doing what I do. And I think the reason that's inconceivable is because it is not conceivable that my life with a and a startup is going to look different than it is right now with the Me just having my startup but that's not to say that I can't have both.

and that's why I hate the term. My startup is my baby. And to your point, I do often hear this coming from men and sometimes I even hear this coming from men with children. that's [00:29:00] also, I think a nuance that's important to tease out. the.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: yesterday about the school of Knox, if you don't follow them, it's the student that 7 million followers in Austin, Texas, and he travels around the country and he, interviews millionaires and billionaires and ask them how they did it like on the street. And he did this to a founder, a male founder that was walking with his wife.

He said, Hey, sir, like, have you ever been broke before? Have you ever made a million dollars? Like where, where are you? And he said, he said he made a billion dollars one year, something asinine, the question was, what is the biggest sacrifice you made?

And you know what he said, and I still am thinking about it. He goes, I never saw my kids wake up. I never put them to bed. And then I, my wife would be mad at me cause I'm working until the hour. And I said, that's not a sacrifice. That's a choice.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Choice.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: And I think that's actually the superpower of women.

When we conceive, we can make the choices that have the most impact on our lives. And then can [00:30:00] still make a difference because women, when we're doing this together, we can actually make the wave of impact. So that sticks with me. And I think that's a really common story, unfortunately, simply because they're not having the children. They don't know any different.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: wow. Yeah. I've heard stories like that too, and all too common, unfortunately. I would love to actually speak to as well. I was thinking for a brief moment there that you were going to say something. I was hoping that you'd say something a little more, uplifting, which is.

I thought that, I know, I know we love to see it when we do, but gosh, we have to go searching sometimes depending on who's being talked to. But I thought that maybe that interviewer was going to ask this founder what the most important decision was that he made in his life as a founder. And I must've been, delusional at this point, but I thought he was going to say the most important decision that he had made.

Was who he married

because [00:31:00] I do hear that and I back that a hundred percent and you've spoken to your partnership and how strong it is.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Literally my husband and I have known each other since we were 12. So we

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Oh my gosh.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: roots and friendship and growing up together and. Evolving as human beings together, really going through every, I always believe that every five years you go through a new growth phase as an individual. every five years we've had to refall in love with each other. And I'm so blessed that I've always been obsessed with him. He's so wonderful. but I would say since started my own business and decided I'm going all in, he has stepped up to the plate to the nth degree. He helps. Everything like he's also in tech sales.

So I use him as, tell me what I'm doing wrong. Like help me with how I should communicate with customers and potential clients and partnerships, he's very good at that. So he helps me on the business, but he also helps me [00:32:00] with the children. Like tonight I have a tech stars event, for all the new founders that got accepted into the Columbus state, I have to be gone from five 30 to eight.

So what we, what we do is we figure out Hey, who's picking up, who's dropping off, what has to happen? I'll order Chick fil a. So you don't have to worry about cooking dinner for four kids. I'm going to leave. I'm going to sneak out early. I'll come back for bedtime. And he handles that. And he does it with grace, to be honest. I don't think many men would do that so gracefully, but he has been just the rock of foundation and making sure that I have what I need to be able to succeed. If I didn't have him, I probably wouldn't be here today, to be honest. So

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: for him.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah. I completely relate to your experience. Uh, I, I have a very similar setup with my partner and it brings me back to a theme that you had teased earlier, which is the importance of strong male allies, which is something that I love to [00:33:00] unpack because No matter what, we're in an industry that's still male dominated and it's really easy to fall into the camp of like, I can't trust any men, and there's reason to believe that sometimes, but there's also so much opportunity that can be unlocked when you find strong male allies, both within the context of your professional career and outside of it.

So is there any thoughts you have there?

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: So I mentioned earlier that I've been really privileged to work with so many men that had deep pockets,

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: and building their tech startups. And a lot of them actually had skills that I. Never had, , one of them in particular, his name is Alex. He was a mentor for a really long time. He's about 10 or 15 years.

My senior had an engineering background, brilliant person, but so kind and willing to teach. And grow people's like their professional development. And he's been, he's given me so many opportunities to expand with startups that we've [00:34:00] worked on together, exploring different things, also given me advice on my new business.

And I really believe that both men and women are going to help lift us up. But having the counterpart, You know, the male counterpart to actually support you is almost sometimes more important because they give a perspective that our gender cannot. Right. And I think they offer a perspective that of what they see in the industry and the ones that really care, they will tell you like it is and give you the opportunity to figure that out.

Um, while also teaching you in the process, at least that's been my experience. Of course, I've met. men that are, of course we all have, right. That may not be as supportive, but you have to be able to sift between all of the noise and figure out what the signal is. And that's just not decision making.

It's also people, Who is going to lift you up, who's going to actually support you. And you have to find that signal within the first phone [00:35:00] call, very quickly to define, okay, is this person in my corner or not? And if they are lean into it. If they're not move on. Also, yes, be cautious. Yes.

Be skeptical, but also not too skeptical because we hurt ourselves when we do that without being open. Of course, give the one, two chances, and then kind of figure out, how does that relationship evolve? But the only way we're going to move up is if both genders come together. However, I will say, That women are the only ones that are really going to change this gender gap. And it's because we have to change the businesses to adapt because the male counterpart, there's no way in hell they'll ever understand what we're going through. They can see it, but they won't ever truly understand. And that's not their fault. So I believe, and this is sort of what I'm doing in my business is changing the business model. I think we all, as women have to consider. what creative ways can we expand our businesses that actually help closing that gap in general?

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: [00:36:00] Completely. I think to your point of being cautious, but not overly cautious, it's very easy to talk yourself out of something. particularly, again, within the context of tech startups, yes, there's a lot of reasons you shouldn't do it. there's a lot of things that are going to be proverbially stacked against you as a woman.

But if you don't do it, even though you want to do it, then you're kind of taking yourself out of

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: taking

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: structure. Yeah, you're taking yourself out of the game. And, you know, I was trying to not use a spoon. Sports analogy there, but it's so hard. They're so riddled throughout.

I love what sports do for people. I am not somebody who can speak intelligibly to sports at all, but sometimes I realize how pervasive it is through startup culture and, and language corporate language in general. But yeah, if you kind of take yourself out of that conversation. Who's going to be the one that is changing the infrastructure?

Because like you said, if it's male founders in a room together, they are living in a system that [00:37:00] reinforces the way they already think. So why are they going to challenge any of their ways of working? And it's something I think about all the time. Often when it gets really hard

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: I always tell people, So just try literally just try, that's what you're going to get to the next step. But it's not trying that that is the bigger problem. It's analysis paralysis. Women and what I've learned in talking to so many is that they will overthink themselves to the point of what decision do I make?

They don't know how to find the signal, at least in my experience. And choosing the decision, whether it's right or wrong with conviction, because we're so risk averse that we want every decision to be the right one. So I try to challenge the mindset of. Everything is a test, every single thing that you do is a test and there are many like do small tests every single week to figure out.

Make that decision really quick. Find out what data move on. I try to include that in all of our processes to get the analysis paralysis gone because that is worse than not trying.[00:38:00]

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Yeah.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: yeah.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: also if you look at everything, like a bunch of mini tests or experiments, it removes that element of failure, which is something that if you're going to be in startups, if you have a fear of failure, It's almost impossible because inherent in the whole process is failing. So if you think of your life just like you said, gathering signal to inform next steps or understand whether you need to pivot or evolve your strategy, it kind of depersonalizes it because I think a lot of women also have a fear of failure.

And if you reframe the idea of failure as you know, as Brian said, in one of our last interviews, failure is data point, not an ending point. I know a lot of women who are going out of their way to just avoid failure, but if failure is not an issue, maybe you won't go out of your way to avoid it so much.

And then maybe you won't be taking yourself out of so many opportunities.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: You know, when, when I was younger, my biggest fear was failure I always like, now I don't even know what my biggest even, [00:39:00] nothing even comes to mind. my biggest fear, nothing even comes to mind right now, in terms of business.

But when we talk about failure, I don't even like using that word because. if when you think of it, when you, like you said, depersonalize it and you just think of them as experiments or tests, you're just learning. is just a learning game. You're going through like a semester in college

and then you move on and move on and find the job, et cetera. It's the same thing as if you're building. Um, And when you switch your mindset into, Oh, I can just try that really fast. Get it over with, try another thing really fast. Get it over with and repeat that process over and over again. That fear just diminishes all the way.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Absolutely. What I love too, you gave some very practical advice, this is something that helps de risk because we do know a lot of women and people in general who just don't have a lot of, financial cushion or have a lot of just incredible, limitless access in their life.

They do have to de risk certain business decisions. It is not fair to say that everybody can take risks and bounce back. [00:40:00] So I love how you help women de risk their businesses. Another way you can de risk venturing into a startup is having a secondary stream of income. , you talked about this with your consulting I do this as well.

In addition to rev science, I do freelancing and consulting and. can you speak a little bit more that? Because I just don't think it's talked about enough. And when it's not talked about enough, people expect their startups to start paying them before they're ready to start paying them. I feel like this is a little secret that needs to be more widely discussed.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: too. Um, so first when you start a tech company, expect it to be 12 to 24 months before you have Money all. I think people think, Oh, I'll be build this thing and then I'll start getting customers. And then it'll just like blow up because they see what's on the news.

And, but what they don't see is actually all the behind the scenes of what's happening, that tech company that you saw on tech crunch was actually building for like five years for their profitable or made any money or a return for their investors or whatever it is. , and so. The process is long. [00:41:00] I think everyone thinks it's faster than it is because they see the anomalies in the news or online, but actually 99 percent of businesses take time to build, validate, find customers and grow. Because of that, it's really important that you do think of, okay, well, how can I earn right now? And my favorite advice, because I've done this and it's worked really well, but even the people that I've worked with, , that have excelled, have done this too, is that if you are already consulting, whatever you're doing in your full time job, how can you consult for startups on the side doing that or whatever the company is. you do that, you're testing what your product could be at a deeper level. So is just you super ingrained in problem solving every day. So the next step to that, I always say is how do you productize that? How do you actually take what your skill sets are? What's your, the problems that you're solving for on a regular day to day basis.

And the most common one I hear is I do this in Excel. Okay. Well, the Excel is your IP. All of these [00:42:00] formulas that you've created that gives this company an output is your IP. How do you actually then turn that into something that maybe 10 companies can use? Start thinking about earning money. While you're building or build while you're earning money so that you're not just, Oh, I'm going to shut down my business.

I'm going to shut down the W2. I'm going to quit. I'm going to go get funding and I'm going to run. That never happens. People that do that fail, like truly fail. So you have to be thinking in sequence and overlap rather than hard stops and starts. Otherwise you're going to put yourself in a very vulnerable position you may a higher likelihood to, , not succeed.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Love that. Okay. So I know we're, we're kind of running up on time, so I want to leave with some final thoughts from you, Noam McKee. I want to also speak about the latest and greatest with PDS lab and what you have in store for the future. But before we get into that, what is, what is. The one thing you would say to a [00:43:00] female founder who is apprehensive about starting her own company, what would you want her to walk away from this conversation knowing to maybe empower her a little bit more to make that jump?

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: I think anyone is capable of anything, but women in particular have soft skills that, , our male counterparts don't have simply by 73 percent of us are caretakers and we're doing things logistically and caring and nurturing relationships on a regular day to day basis. Those are skills that are your superpower. So if you take those skills and transfer them into what are you good at and work, can think of something. So you being a stay at home mom, or you being a W2 employee actually has so much value in what you can bring and to not disqualify yourself by what your history is or your professional development has been up to this point, because there's so much value there and learning that you can apply. Just take a step back from yourself and look at yourself from the 10,000 foot view and think, oh my gosh, I've done [00:44:00] all of these accomplishments. I'm capable. And don't be unafraid. Be unequivocally unafraid.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: . So, so critical. Okay. Tell us a little bit more about what you're up to at the lab. What can folks expect? \ , ways that they could potentially get in touch Let it rip.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: the lab is a tech accelerator for women. We help you build product. We're a very tactical accelerator where we want to help you build your MVP, get your first customers, get you the resources and access, which access that you need to succeed. What's next is I'm on my process of building my own tech platform that takes this accelerator and.

Puts it into a platform for all female tech founders. , so I'm really excited about that in 2025 and formulating what it can be for the broader industries, , across founders that are in a build launch, grow and scale mode. So I'm really excited about building this and bringing more access to women in all stages of their tech startups.

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Well, now I know why you were telling everybody to productize whatever service based offerings they have, because [00:45:00] that's quite frankly what you're doing. And it makes so much sense, right? I mean, I know you've gotten incredible traction with the lab and you're helping so many women in order to really start to do that at mass and at scale.

, you have to productize it.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: I'm really excited about that. And. The women that have already been supporting in the lab or across industries like fintech, , women's health is a big one. Mental health, healthcare in general. Sports robotics. It's runs the gamut. So any woman out there that is trying to get access, or even just be immersed with other women at the same stage as you. This is the place to be. And it's the most, it's the best thing I've ever done in my career. I'm so proud, especially with all the women that also give back in so many ways. It's a, uh, the best learning experience across the board. So I would love to support you. Of course. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram. Take talk threads, any social channels, search my name or accelerated for women's slash PDS lab. And you'll find me. I'd love to work with you. Thank

abby-schommer_3_09-12-2024_102248: Oh my gosh. You're so generous. No Mickey. I, you [00:46:00] were an incredibly busy person given how successful this latest venture is, but, , you've carved out time for me and for that. I'm eternally grateful. And also for our audience. So, , I'm so, so thrilled with everything you shared today. And with that, I think we'll wrap it up.

Thank you again. No Mickey so much. I'm excited for all the folks who will undoubtedly be getting in touch with you.

nomiki_3_09-12-2024_102248: Abby. I appreciate you.

Thank you for listening to the marginal podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the team at Reb science, with theme music by Siddhartha. You can find full episode show notes@marginalpodcast.com and follow us at marginal podcast on Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

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