Noa Schein Kahalon, Co-Founder of hoggo: Rejecting the Silicon Valley Playbook, Building a Network from Scratch, Prioritizing Communication & More

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: coming from Israel, the founders that I knew are the ones that met in the, in the army, right. Or they worked together at a startup already, and they already had a very supportive community the network of investors

and I felt that because I don't have that. I don't stand a chance. But I kind of built my own supportive community along the way. Right. So you go to an event, , you reach out for advice, from every interaction, you find the people that you can reach out to and once I did, I really thought, You don't have to know other founders. You can create your own circle and that's perfectly fine.

It will take a while. It might be, more difficult, but it's possible. And that's the most important thing.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: How are you doing today, Noah? How's your day so far?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: It's been good, a bit rainy, but, uh, yeah, all good.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah,

Rainy because you're in Berlin, [00:01:00] correct?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes, uh, gray is our default.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah, gray is your default. is that something that's a little newer to you? Because you didn't grow up in a town of gray, did you?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: No, no, I, uh, grew up, in Israel, and rain was like four days a year, maybe. I, uh, grew up in the same, radius neighborhood. Until two years ago, I moved to, to Berlin.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Very cool. Yeah. And if you don't mind sharing what brought you to Berlin.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: yes.

when I started, my startup, Hogo, right in the beginning, we got, , an opportunity for, you know, government grants, which is, Uh, dream for a startup because you get initial money without giving equity. And basically I had to decide if I'm giving, uh, you know, my comfortable life in Israel and starting, uh, all fresh, uh, in, Germany.

you know, I had this great opportunity and great team and I felt that if I won't take it, I'll regret for the [00:02:00] rest of my life. So I just did it and yeah, no regrets there.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah. It's always great. Those government grant programs, because the thing that's so tricky about taking on investments, especially so early is you give up so much ownership in your own company. And I think it's really interesting. In our culture, and I don't know if it's the same in Berlin or, where you're from in Israel, but we really celebrate early investments and really early stage startups raising venture capital. But you're giving up a lot of ownership in your company very early on you take on engagements like that.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes, that's very true. And I also feel like that, you know, in this ecosystem, most startups, sometimes forget that an investment, it's not the goal of the startup. That's just a means. it would be best to take it when you don't have to give up that much. because otherwise when things go along and if they go well, You will maybe end up [00:03:00] as an employee in your own company, right? Uh, if you get sold or something like that, you might not necessarily see, a reward for all your efforts. it's really, really important, uh, to do it wisely, especially early stages and grants and even, you know, programs where, they take a fixed amount and you can.

plan ahead. That's, that's a really good, uh, starting point for, for startups.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: completely.

Yeah, and I love what you, you kind of talking through the journey of entrepreneurship as well, because when I actually first reached out to you, some context there, I mentioned how on this podcast, I'm really interested in speaking with the Early stage founders who are still in the thick of it. They might still be building their product, might not be released. And maybe a lot of their work is conceivably very invisible, invisible because their product hasn't launched invisible because they haven't raised a huge sum of money. Again, I think our society, we draw a lot of eyes towards [00:04:00] these very public companies that have these very public accolades.

And you had actually shared with me that you've been reached out to, to be on certain podcasts that were looking for that, that we're looking for that public presentation of success from your company. But we kind of connected over the fact that in the early days of a startup, it's very, Quiet work you're building.

There's a lot of people now who build in public, but so much the work is behind the scenes. And so, yeah, if you could speak a little bit more to that and kind of your experience there, I think it would be pretty illuminating for a lot of our listeners.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: that I kind of remember it as, you know, I didn't want to do any start in any podcasts because of that experience. And what happened basically, it was a very early on, and someone like really reached out to me to do a podcast interview, just like we're doing now. , and it seems like a really good opportunity, you know, for exposure, especially, , when you're, , starting out, you're just looking for, those types of opportunities.

And I hopped on a [00:05:00] prep call, and it was with the host and, like three minutes into the call, I really truly, you know, starting to feel uncomfortable, he started really, grilling me on, on the company and company stats and, and the sales figures and all, all this information that I.

Wasn't like comfortable sharing, and when I hesitated, he really, you know, switch gears and, uh, started to name drop all Silicon Valley, uh,, figures and what they're doing. , , and this whole like interaction, left me feeling belittled.

And, out of place and you're already in a situation when, you know, you're, you're having imposter syndrome like twice a day. But the fact that I was able, like during that call to tell him, I don't think it will be a good match. wish you best of luck. I, I also surprised myself, right.

I knew how to draw the line and say, okay, let's, , I'm not feeling comfortable, no point [00:06:00] keep doing that. yeah, it's also, you know, it's threatened me, and reinforced my belief in authenticity, right? There is no one way to do things. I don't need to follow a Silicon Valley, rule book. Uh,, there are plenty of startups and plenty of ways, so it wasn't a good, uh, start to my podcast, world, but, yeah,

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah, I can't empathize, but I can sympathize because I again, I think people are so drawn to. These external stats to qualify success. And I think quite honestly, I'm surprised that somebody who operates that way has a startup podcast, because the reality is, again, it's so. Undercover it's so much in the early days, especially in, I don't know, maybe he's used to speaking to founders who are already on the other side of big exits and things like that.

But in the early days, your. You're iterating to product market fit. You're trying to find out where your sweet spot is [00:07:00] and you might not even have traction. And that's like 90 percent of the job. it is funny these people who cling to accolades because oftentimes I find those people never founded their own companies because when you have, you know, what's more the norm versus what is more of the publicly facing narratives that get told.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: exactly. That's, that's exactly what I felt is like following a certain, you know, all the news, all the tech news and or not feeling the hard work and the stuff that you're actually doing and the challenges, and trying to learn from other people's challenges as a founder, it's given you a lot more resources to work with, whether than hearing about, okay, they raised X or they, crack the code that they won't tell you what the code is and their code is not necessarily your, , success code, right?

So I mean, it depends on your audience, but I don't see. Other than investors, maybe, an audience that can [00:08:00] benefit from my stats

or comparing my stats to others. so yeah, it felt very, very weird.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah. Yeah. Well, fortunately, this audience isn't looking for. It's looking for your stats. It's looking for your story. And that's personally what I'm invested in too. So maybe we can take a few steps back. I know that you had an entrepreneurial itch very early in life. I'd love to learn a little bit more about Noah pre startups, your journey that led you to eventually founding your own company.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes. Happy to, everyone that knows me, is very not surprised that I, uh, that I'm a founder, for me doing the switch, is awesome. Very easy. I, uh,, always had the, uh, entrepreneurial mindset. as a teen, I used to build online shops and then buy a stock from China and resell it on my store.

it was, you know, the, the early times of e-commerce, uh, it was fairly new. but I knew, how to set up online [00:09:00] payments and how to ship products and recognizing trends. And I loved everything about it, like from branding to marketing, to even customer support, and going to the post office to, to ship all the products.

yeah, so I did that from the age of 14. to 18 until I had to join the military After my military service, I actually started law school and this is where I got fascinated by the world of privacy and data protection, which really combined.

My technological background or my business background, with human rights. Um, and I really, really liked that, that spot. So I really decided to focus my career on that. and right after law school, I, , worked at a privacy consultancy in Israel, , that basically serves as an external data protection officer for global tech companies.

And this is where I met, my co founder today. and together we basically decided to, to build something of our [00:10:00] own.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: It's interesting. I, I have worked for a lot of Israeli tech companies and a lot of Israelis meet there. A lot of Israeli founders meet their co founders in the army. so

interesting that that wasn't the case for you.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah. I wasn't in a, you know, a technological world. I, uh, had the same role as, Gal Gadot. Uh, we were in the, yes, we were both, uh, combat fitness instructor. we even had the same officer, but of course I'm a few years after her.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah, a combat fitness officer. So were you training

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes. You're an instructor. So, uh,, you're just trained, soldiers.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Very cool. But that would make sense then why you wouldn't find your technological co founders if you weren't in a technical role in the army. Cause that's generally, yeah, the path I've seen. Okay. Incredible. So you, you meet your co founder when you're working at this privacy consultancy. what about. That person. And what [00:11:00] about the two of you gave way to this idea of starting your own thing?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: So we really, um,, bonded over, you know, how things are currently being managed. It was very frustrating. , if you're working with tech companies that are looking to innovate, but your workflows are very. manual and slow, it builds, frustration, especially when, you know, it can very much be optimized and automated.

Uh, so yeah, We basically had no choice other than doing that because once you realize. that it can be done and you can do it, it's very hard to get back to what you do. so that's like how we, ended up doing what we're doing.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Right. And that would make sense to that. You working with, cause you worked with tech companies. Is that at this privacy consultancy? Yeah, that would make sense that if you're working with tech companies who have probably automation built into their processes, or they work on [00:12:00] automating technologies for other companies, then working with a privacy consultancy, who's a bit more manual, they wouldn't have the same tolerance thresholds because they

a figure it can probably be automated as well.

Okay.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: It could basically be part of their operations and simple, every, every company to ever for like even early stage to, to mid size to enterprise.

It could be very, very easy. that's what we felt. And this is why. Right. We're doing what we're doing. democratize this whole. field of compliance for tech companies.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: I can empathize with your saying, once you figure out it can be done and the fact that nobody else is really doing it, which I'd love to key into a little bit more. It's almost like you can't not pursue it. there's almost the sense of like, we need to do this now. Like,, we can't keep this in our hearts much longer now that we know what's possible in this opportunity.

Yeah. You can't envision spending your time any other way. There's like a sense of urgency that's created in you. And I feel like that is when you have feelings [00:13:00] like that, that's when you know, you're probably a founder and somebody that needs to realize their own dreams and not someone else's. So I

completely, I completely understand that, but I mean, were there other competitors or was this a completely disruptive thing that nobody else was doing at the time?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: No, uh, there were competitors, and there are competitors, which is good that you learned that it's really good, , not to start anything from scratch. but I think that in this field. it's a competition that just started. So basically they're all close to the start line. there aren't any clear, winners yet. and it's not necessarily a winner takes it all because compliance is very diverse. You have privacy and you have security. And regulations and laws are just keep on popping up and the companies themselves need to adjust very, very quickly. And it's interesting to see, how things will develop.

everyone is following the other and what they're doing, what they're doing. [00:14:00] it's, it's very, very, very interesting. Basically interesting because the pain is there for companies, but they themselves are really not sure which one to choose because there is no, dominant players yet.

but yeah, I think that for founders, it's, it's a good, situation. I mean, it is, very and, you know, you're really into it, day and night, but yeah, it's also like things are happening, it's, you need to, make things, work because the interest is there.

So it's, it's really good for us.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: When you're working on something and there is no competitors, Sometimes you wonder, is there enough proof of concept that people need this at all?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Exactly.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: And I think that's another kind of false narrative that gets told, because a lot of, again, the founder stories we hear about, like the Airbnbs of the world, , they created brand new technologies, they completely disrupted an industry. I think a lot of new founders think they need to disrupt an industry created [00:15:00] technology that doesn't exist. That's gonna blow people's minds, but you can have a very successful company that, , has already some established proof of concept because other companies are doing it. But you're scratching an itch, maybe in a way that they aren't, you have a certain feature set that they don't have, or you're going after a slightly different customer demographic.

that doesn't sound as glamorous as transforming the world with your groundbreaking technology, but. you can still make a really important difference in people's lives, especially if you're targeting a certain customer demographic that is sitting there waiting for a solution that's kind of like the ones they've seen out there, but doesn't quite feel for them.

Or maybe it's a little outside of their price point or, , some other semblance of that. Yeah.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think that it's just like finding that small thing that basically changed everything for your audience. And at the end of the day, It's an emotional decision as they [00:16:00] say every bit to be is good to see is true at the end of the day It's an emotional decision of your end persona if to get you or your competitor and it might be because you address them specifically because you That's their role or that's their demographic or that's that tiny feature that they were looking for and they're willing to get the whole package for it.

that's the search, but that's like the excitement of getting there.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: the emotional piece is big. And some people say, you know, business isn't emotional, but when people decide to pay for something, it is a very emotional decision. another thing that's critically important is you need to really listen to your customers. You need to not just listen to them, but really invite them to the conversation and be fiercely curious because If you listen hard enough, your customers are actually going to tell you exactly what they need and exactly what's missing.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah, I agree. And it's also about. [00:17:00] Asking questions and really digging into, not just why they always tell you to ask why, but it's also how, and it's also when, and walk me through it. And, this is where you really understand, maybe did you ever look for a solution for, for this problem and then no, okay.

It tells me so much this now, that's exactly like really asking all those questions. letting them talk and getting all those insights and then implementing them, or maybe understanding that you are wrong and, you know, letting go of, you know, your past, ideas. It's, it's also a really hard thing to do.

but sometimes you just have to, you just need to move on. it's also emotional for us, to let it go of, of all those, things that we, uh, worked on and focusing on something else. And you need to iterate very, very fast.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: you made the same exact point I was going to. It is emotional for us. it's easy to get attached to ideas, [00:18:00] especially when you've spent so much time and you have a product at this point. that idea has been realized and it's material to realize once you're putting it out into the world that maybe it doesn't have the level of traction you need. To then deprecate it or shut it down and start something new is really hard. did you experience that at Hago? Was there anything where you thought had it, but then just the, the product market fit and the customer feedback just wasn't quite what you wanted it to be and you had to pivot.

And what was that emotional journey like for you?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: actually we, that's exactly how we started. you have a line of ideas and then you say, okay, I believe in this one. Let's start with this one. And then you, you do some ground checks and you're,, doing the, the great mistake of just starting and then seeing what's going on, what's going to happen.

And, it wasn't great. We started with one feature, and, we really got [00:19:00] crickets. But, luckily, we understood that very, very fast. instead of, trying and trying and make it work. And so we really decided , to let it go very, very fast. No, uh, strings attached. this one is out, because you're talking to people and because you basically understand you were wrong and that's perfectly fine.

No one, maybe where, where people get it right, right from the get go. You need to make mistakes and it's really good to learn from them. And then the second, I mean, the second, launch it was times better. We learned so much from the first mistake. we talked to more people.

We asked the right questions. We saw how they do things and basically build the second feature so yeah, we basically did that mistake, but it was, a positive thing that we did that we learned a lot, now it really allows us [00:20:00] to, do things better.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Right. the biggest mistake would have been if you kept charging on with that first product iteration. Because again, I think in startup culture and just entrepreneurship in general, there's this whole notion I've been talking about a little bit more, like the best founders are delusional. The best founders are quote unquote psychotic. You know, they don't get distracted by the noise and the naysayers. And to a certain extent, I think that's actually a very harmful sentiment because. if you're disregarding customer feedback, if you're not paying attention to the silence and to the crickets, that is very potent signal and you shouldn't be ignoring it.

You should be listening to it. I think that is, that is the biggest mistake. If you exhaust all of your energy Going after something that's not a fit, then you're just delaying the opportunity to learn from that signal and develop something that is an incredible fit.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: I think that it's a very tough balance [00:21:00] between, convincing yourself that, you know, it's just an imposter syndrome and it's okay, you can do it, and then also accepting the fact that you might be wrong on this thing, and it's okay. So it's like balancing, I can do it.

And this one wasn't, wasn't a good idea. So it's like encouraging yourself and admitting mistakes at the same, the same breath, that's just, how it goes and it's, and it's okay, but it's not a natural, balance to do.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Is there something that was pervasive throughout all of the different product iterations you have? Was there one constant? Was it the who you were trying to serve, the how you were trying to serve them? Was there any kind of common thread through everything?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes. I mean, our goal is constant and it's very, very fixed, to take this confusing, complex and boring thing called compliance, for tech companies and make it kind of fun, kind of simple, Very straightforward. that's our goal. currently it's a hot [00:22:00] potato and, uh, either you give it to your external consultant or someone internally, uh, get this hot potato on their desk and it's never fun. And that's what we're trying to do. once it will happen, once all the workflows will be simplified, it will affect, positively affect the users of those companies, which are us at the end of the day. It's us. On an individual level. so that's, that's our goal. And it's always somewhere in, uh, in, in our activities and what we're doing.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: and this is something you need to be really clear on with your co founders to, me and my co founder, Brian, I think are, consistent through line through everything we do is we're pretty adamant about who we want to be building for. And when that is what you can anchor yourself in, the ideas are just vehicles to serving that who or for you kind of serving that broader mission statement.

And for you, it's the who to you [00:23:00] want to serve yourself. You want to solve the problem that you saw was a problem when you were at that consulting group. If you can find one thing the key tenant of why you're doing business in the first place, you can get less attached to the, the how of how you're going to get there and the material ideas. And it's more about, are you solving this problem for the people you want to be solving it for?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: That's exactly it. Uh, you really need to find those anchors, because otherwise, to be honest, you're just all over the place. You have many ideas and you have many, opportunities, let's call it that. But does it serve that particular thing, that goal, that audience that you have in mind, and you also need to look at the, you only have 24 hours and you really need to, you starting to realize that you really need to invest them wisely because otherwise your mental health, your, energy won't be there.

so it really, it's good to have those anchors, uh, for you, for the [00:24:00] company, for the founders, it's really important.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah. Speaking of founders, I think that's also, um, Something critically important that you and your founders are aligned on what is that consistent thing that you are all going to align yourselves against can you speak more to the report you have with your also what makes a good co founder because we hear a lot the best decision you can make in business is. who you partner with, right? It's the people at the end of the day and you, didn't meet your people in the army, you met them after. I'd love to hear a little bit of the origin story of your founding group.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: I just starting and saying, I'm very, very lucky. I have the greatest co founders, , and I acknowledge that. My first, co founder Sam, , who is Hogo's, , CEO, uh, he met him at the consultancy and we worked together. and our CTO, Tony, , he's, uh,, Sam's friend from back in the day. And he [00:25:00] was, , approached many times with ideas for startups.

And, uh, when basically Sam pitched, , his idea to him, , he actually wanted in. , and this is where, , Sam connected between me and Tony and it was it's just a really good interaction , from the first day. And we kind of understood that it would be stupid not to do it. and the most important thing for us is, having honest and transparent communication.

If you're feeling something, if something is going on in your personal life, you need to share it. We just go on a call, the one person who wants to share talks transparently, no judgment, nothing, and we make it work. And we've been through a lot, and challenges, and problems, and it's kind of like a very safe place, it's very stable.

Great. [00:26:00] Communication is the basis for having a great, team and great founders. And it's everything. It's everything you can, once you feel that you can overcome every challenge, we. These two people, it's the right team.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah, And it is so tough because I think it's impossible not to bring the personal into the professional when you're working in a corporation, your company is not your family and your startups, not your family, either.

Your startups, not your baby. That's something I talk openly about as well, but we can't pretend like some of this isn't emotional because the people who start companies have emotions. So if you're dealing with something. Within or outside the context of what you're working on to clue your co founders into that is in the best interest of the company as well. I appreciate you speaking to that process that you all have. the other thing that is inherent in that is you need to be Equally vulnerable in those processes, right? It can't always be just one person sharing, [00:27:00] everybody needs to be participating to a similar extent and feel that these conversations are important ones to be having.

It aren't in fact a distraction, but they are core to building what you're building.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes.

I think that at the end of the day, it can't be a one side street, right? Because if someone is going through, , a personal, matter right now, in three months, in a year, it will be me. , so being honest, being transparent and, helping them solve this and taking whatever I can take from, from their plate to make it work.

Of course it's in the company's best interest, but it's also my best interest as a co founder. And at the end of the day, they will do the same for me. I mean, of course it will happen. That's life. I mean, of course you need to separate, but also some things are just inevitable.

and it will affect your day to day. And if you know, there, there is someone there that you can trust and Hey, I just, I can't do this this week. I'm [00:28:00] having this and that, and they're there for you. And yeah, it's always a two sided or three sided street in our case.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: And that's so smart too, because there's going to be times where you're going to have to stick up, take a step back from the business. So I love kind of looking at things like you just did on a broader time horizon. It's not to say that you all need to be equally contributing to the business. In a given day over the time span of a year, three years, do you feel that you're all contributing to a similar extent? Um, I think That's like a really liberating feeling to have.

Like We all have seasons of life where we can be more in our work and not in our work acknowledging that we're all going to go through those seasons is really powerful. I think.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yes. And I mean, if you're looking at this, Oh, I'm giving too much, I'm doing way more than the others. That's not good. You can't compare yourself, to other, other people's efforts because A, there are things that you don't know that they're doing [00:29:00] and B, as you said, \ it's a very narrow timeframe.

Maybe next month they'll do way more than you did and it's okay. And if you have doubt that they're not doing whatever they can for the best interest of the company and the founders, then that's a very different case. , right.

That's something else.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Right. Because if you, that just means you don't trust that person.

And if you don't feel that there's embedded trust amongst you and your co founders, and you do start to get those doubts of what are they doing?

You probably shouldn't be co founders.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: exactly. Exactly.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: if you feel put out by putting in more work in your own company. You probably also shouldn't be part of that company because you're probably not building something that's really important to you because when you are, it always matters you're never feeling like you are being put out or too much is being asked of you [00:30:00] because like you said before, you can't envision yourself doing anything else.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: everything you do is somehow connected. Even if you're taking off, it's because you need to recharge for the next day for that big event for that, whatever it is. so yeah, everything is, connected and, I completely agree.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: it is so great that , you feel so connected to the company, . you feel that you've, developed a group of co founders who set one another up for success. when you were early on in your startup journey? was there anything that happened that gave you pause or anything in startup culture more generally that made you hesitant, were some of the perceived challenges early on and how did you get past those?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: coming from Israel, the founders that I knew are the ones that made, And that met in the, in the army, right. Or they worked together at a startup already, and they already had a very supportive [00:31:00] community of founders and professionals that they can basically reach out to learn from, learn all those tiny hacks, uh, get, um, you know, the network of investors of, other companies that are willing to be your pilots.

And I felt that because I don't have that. I don't stand a chance. , it's really, it's not possible. that's really what held me back. but I learned as I, go that you don't have to have it from the start. Of course, it's really nice to learn , from other people's mistakes, but also it's kind of, it might block your creativity, right?

If you're following others. and I kind of built my own supportive community along the way. Right. So you go to an event, , you reach out for advice, , so from every interaction, you find the people that you can reach [00:32:00] out to and once I did, I really thought, that I was stupid to think that it could be a blocker.

but today, yeah, I'm grateful. And I think that have a very, strong network and supportive community and a close circle, whether they're founders, whether they're, , whether they're, I don't know, even employees or, whoever they are, they help me in their way. and yeah, I'm very grateful for it.

I think it's like also something for the founders or whoever wants to be founder that is listening, that you don't have to have it from the start. You don't have to know other founders. can meet the first, maybe they will follow you, but you can create your own circle and that's perfectly fine.

It will take a while. It might be, more difficult, but it's possible. And that's the most important thing.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: cultivating that circle of, again, it's great to have people who support you that can't relate directly to your experience, but I think it's also really important to have people who can support you, who can [00:33:00] relate to your experience. It's a whole reason. It's the reason I started this podcast, really, Because I didn't have people in my immediate friend and family circle who could relate directly to not even being a founder, but working in startups.

I mean, it's not super common. There's a reason most people don't choose this path.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah, it's very exhausting.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: it's yeah. And a lot of people are going to look at you and it's not going to make sense from a monetary standpoint, from a. Just perceived level of uncertainty and the very real level of uncertainty that is operating in startups.

There are no guarantees that this is gonna work out, and that's. The whole point you do it anyway, and to other people in your life, especially people who care deeply for you, that is scary. They sometimes might be worried, and fear for your future. it's, you know, we're, we're all, there's something innate in us that makes us want to do this work.

And when you can find other people that have that. desire to build something that they [00:34:00] can't live another day without building. You really start to get that level of support and validation and joint commiseration on the ups and downs of entrepreneurship,

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah. I think it's a,

it's, it's also a very strong connection, right? If, , it will be someone that you met before starting your journey, maybe they wouldn't grow with you as much, but if that's someone that, you know, meets you , at the , somewhere to start. And then, , you recircle back to it, like even a year later.

And they're like, wow, what happened? That's amazing. , so they kind of witness your growth. , and also they kind of spot that small challenges, that like, Only, uh,, fellow founders they can really send it. , So I think it's, it's also a very honest connection. I mean, it's a lot of uncertainty, it's a lot of challenges and, , both sides are very much aware that, so many things can happen and, uh, it's a rollercoaster, and year.

You have all those ups and downs, uh, [00:35:00] and that's just in one day. Um, so, having that, that circle is important, but it's also important that it will be genuine.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: That's an interesting point too. there's a lot of people who might want to, especially when they see some level of perceived success with your startup, kind of going back to that initial podcast or you talk to, might want to be involved, but you know the reasons for which they want to be involved. And. again, you're so small, if somebody, you know,, offers to give you money or something, you need to really trust people. , Are there any tells, I guess, when you meet anybody that there's someone that you can trust to either bring on to your team or to bring into your community of support? Are there any tells that you look for in vetting for your people?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Oof,

that's, that's a tough one, but I think that, how much they're really trying to understand.

What you're doing and also why you're doing what you're [00:36:00] doing, because this is where you understand that they are trying to find, a common ground, to trying to find your, your motivation, right. And not just. are you in it for the money? , You just, you just want to, conquer the Silicon Valley or whatever, and this is where you know that, okay, so just like hitchhikers, right?

Uh, they're just waiting until you do something and then they'll come along. And if they want to be in it from the start, they are asking the questions about. The, why, the, the, the, how, the really want to feel, why you're doing what you're doing. So that's for me, it's a good sign.

Um,, so yeah, you can feel it from how the conversation is going. If they redirecting it to, , , subjects that are more superficial, that's like kind of my tell

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah, I think a big thing is to if they believe in you as people, And again, your motivations and they're trying to [00:37:00] suss out like you said what your motivations are. I think that's a really good tell because if they get attached to the idea of what you're building or what your financials are. They could be deeply disappointed when all of that changes next month.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: exactly. That's not enough.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Incredible. Well, um, I would love to understand a little bit more about where Hago is now. some of the latest things that our audience can expect of the company? Just what's the latest and greatest with your startup.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: So, , we're live, , , we have a module that allows B2B companies to, uh, , streamline the whole due diligence process when you're trying to sell a product and you're getting, you Ask a lot of, , privacy and data protection questions. We help you, , showcase your compliance easily.

And on the other side, we allow the company that assesses you, , to do it very, very quickly so, uh, both sides can get to work very fast and, that's, that's our focus to have [00:38:00] it. Very integrated into the operations for, companies of all sizes. And yeah, we're working on our next modules and that's pretty much it.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Very exciting. So how long have you been live for now?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: we've been live since February , we, we open access like gradually. First it was free. Now it's

uh,

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: That's such a key milestone in your business.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: It is, it is, it's, it was very, very

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: Yeah. Okay. Well, if folks do want to sign up, become paying customers, where can they sign up for Hago?

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: they can find the access at hogo, H O G G O, dot I O.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: And if they want to connect directly with you, Noah, if they want to just speak to another founder who's been through it and is willing to talk about the process and not just the outcomes and start maybe building their own support network, how can they get in touch directly with you? Yeah.

Awesome.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Yeah, please add me on LinkedIn. I'm very [00:39:00] responsive. Uh, yes, feel free.

abby_4_10-01-2024_101209: I think you've left our audience with A way of navigating maybe some of the uncertainty

Helped them understand what to cultivate in the process, who to trust and, why you should be building. So thank you so much , for doing all the things.

noa_3_10-01-2024_161209: Thank you for having me.

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