Entrepreneurship as a First Generation American with Ronjini Joshua, CEO of The Silver Telegram

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I did kind of feel like a token, that was the time where like people were starting to diversify their teams as well. and in PR, there was very much a straight demographic of, upper class white women, And so if you had men on your team, that was one bonus . And then I was Indian and we were dealing with a lot of tech companies. So then you see, okay, there's a Indian, good work ethic. They know tech for some reason, cause we're Brown. I don't know. And I think that was part of why I was so bored. I was just like sitting there doing nothing.

I told you, my dad was like a very, very hard worker, he was so focused on making it that he didn't really educate us about, any kind of discrimination. that wasn't something that we talked about or it even came up. And so in my mind that didn't really exist

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: thank you so much for being here. I did not know that we were taking this at 5:00 AM your time. So I sincerely apologize, but I [00:01:00] also really admire the fact that you are this bright and bushy tailed at five in the morning. It seems like this isn't your first go around, is it?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I've been working Pacific time for two years, uh, living in Hawaii. So, it's been interesting. So I, I wake up pretty early, like between three and four. yep. And I go to bed pretty early too. So There's that.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, I work in multiple time zones too, but waking up in three or four, waking up before the birds is a whole other story.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: it. I have kids. So, you know, it's very quiet and still, but then my kids started waking up really early. I have an early bird son and so he wakes up at like five 30 every day on the dot. And then I have to put him back and I have to say like one more hour of sleep at and I have to get him back to bed.

So he's an early bird too. So I've, I've learned some things about my kids this way.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Wow. That's incredible. How is your son?

Oh, wow. He's seven and he wakes up at five. I [00:02:00] don't even want to know what time he woke up when he was like an infant or

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: sleep very well. He was one of those. He was like the one that you don't have first because then you won't have anymore. was that kid.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Okay. So he wasn't your first, I assume.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: He's in the middle. Yep.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: And you have three kids. Is that right? Yeah. That's incredible.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I have a 10 year old, a seven year old and a five year old. So,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: I, for those who are watching on YouTube, you have a very impressive setup behind you. I noticed it the first time we hopped on a call. it's almost like this. I don't know if it's a large calendar. There's a lot of color coded post it notes.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: just a big can bit and bored. Yeah, everyone's like, Oh, wow, you're so organized. Like it just post. It's, it's, it's not that, it's that exciting.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: But I would imagine if you're a mother of three and a business owner and you're someone who also prioritizes fitness, I know you probably need to be pretty organized and have a pretty regimented schedule to be able to do all the things you want to do, right?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: They are. There's a lot of discipline that I've learned in the last few years to be [00:03:00] able to do everything. I didn't always have this much organization, but you know, like as you, as you go, you learn things and you realize, okay, if I do want to work out or if I do want to have some time for myself, or if I have to have time for all three of them and do homework, then you know, how do you manage all that time?

And it's, it's not easy, but you kind of figure it out as you go. And then I am very much a live and die by the Google schedule person.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: you are preaching to the choir. I always say, if it's not on my Google calendar, it's not going to happen. And that's bad too when you, if you, if you reserve your calendar just for work related obligations, like people don't think to put personal obligations on their calendar, but if you don't put things regarding your health, your time for yourself, it's a really bad practice to only reserve your calendar for work stuff.

Because if you're someone who only gets things done on your work calendar, then the only thing you're going to make time for is work.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: right. Exactly. Yeah, no. And that's exactly that's exactly right. And I've, [00:04:00] I think only the last a little, yeah, a little bit over a year, I started putting all the family stuff and the fitness stuff and everything. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I can actually use the calendar for more than just work. and it makes sense. And I've even, I don't do this often, but I've even scheduled spontaneous time. Yeah. It's like, Hey, this is time where you're just not going to do anything, or you're just going to find something to do with the kids or, you know, and it's, it's scheduled, but spontaneous at the same time.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: I mean, again, if you're not intentional about some of these things, they're just not going to happen. So I think it's a really great that you know yourself to that extent.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: And, and it's a way to put limits on. Other people taking your time as well. you know, I have worked really hard in my career. And, I think one thing, I think it's maybe a PR thing, but also a cultural thing where we work too much or, or prioritize work and say like, that's the most important thing.

So it's been good to time block. Because then [00:05:00] people know, like, I'm not available. people will book on my calendar, like whenever there's an open spot. And so I think, I think that's really important too, is to block off that time for myself and give myself some boundaries so that,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: not all used up.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. And so you're in the business of PR. You have your own PR agency. I'd love to get a little bit more into the agency in just a bit, but I'd love to learn a little bit more about Rangini pre agency before getting into the working world. Tell us a little bit about growing up and what kind of laid the foundations for the person you are today.

Okay.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah. Um, so my parents are immigrants from India. Um, and I think that's very important because one big thing was that we had cultural differences and I'm not saying we my family and. The public, I'm talking about me and my parents. So that was one big thing that I think people don't sometimes realize if you don't have immigrant parents is that, [00:06:00] um, if you're growing up in a different country, their norms are very different than my norms every day. I mean, my whole entire life. Yeah. had that struggle, that communication gap. It's not because they don't speak English. They speak English, but English is so different from my English. and I, me and my brother were talking about this the other day. Um, was that like, you know, the way my, my parents use words, they don't necessarily mean the same things as if when we use words, because. think, um, and I learned this a long time ago, they think in a different language. So their intention for those words are different. And then we think in English. And so we know how to use the English the way, Americans, think and use it. So that was always a big struggle growing up was that, you know, my parents came here.

My dad worked really, really hard. Um, he's an engineer, very common for Indian, background. He's a, he's actually a geotechnical engineer, so not computer science. or anything like that. basically [00:07:00] earthquake engineering.

And so he became an expert in that and his goal in life was to just get to California and, give his family,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: One of the best places, one of the best places to be an earthquake engineer. I can tell you that much.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: kind of migrated because he started, he went to Auburn University in Alabama. So they landed in the South and they kind of like worked their way West and then we ended up all in California. so that was, that was a big, Interesting path that he took.

And I, I, I guess that's the one thing that we're really most grateful for is that, you know, America is like the land of opportunity. And obviously I don't think I would ever have own business if I wasn't here. so I think that's. One huge thing that we always attribute to our parents is that like they got us here and then we take it to that next chapter. my dad, basically laid the foundation of Hard work and, um, just like saving money.

And, you know, it's just very like, I guess like a poor people mentality of they always saved everything they [00:08:00] didn't spend. And you know, it's like use everything you've got, roll up the tube of toothpaste when you're. When you're finished with it, like squeeze out all the lotion from the bottle, you know, that kind of stuff. and so that's kind of how we were raised to work really hard and, very traditional, like, I guess, paternal environment where like my mom was at home with us, my dad, was working. And then eventually, when I got to, I would say like middle school or high school, my mom was like working in the medical field.

She was doing medical billing. And so then, then she was working. And so all I saw was. everybody working around me. And I think that's kind of what laid the foundation of that. But I did grow up in a pretty white, middle class white neighborhood, um, where I was one of three Indian kids and the whole entire, between when I went to elementary school to when I graduated high school, that was, that was it.

There wasn't very many, Kids that were of my background. We didn't live in that same neighborhood. All the kids like lived in a different neighborhood. for whatever reason, my dad picked, our neighborhood because [00:09:00] he thought that was like the best place for us. His thing was safety being away from fault lines.

Um, that was a big, that

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: thing. I remember the Northridge earthquake, which was a huge earthquake and like, we were in Orange and we still felt it.

I remember like things falling down from the ceiling and I was like, Oh God, if we lived in Northridge, we would have been done. Our house would have been over, but, uh, we lived in a safe place. Place.

And so yeah, I grew up, , there and went to high school and then, uh, eventually I went to Cal State Long Beach and ended up there for school. how I ended up in journalism, I'm not exactly sure, because it's not a path I don't think my parents had knew anything about. been explaining my job to my parents for the last. 20 years.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: This is so relatable. Yeah. My parents still don't know. And to be fair, when you're a business owner, it changes a lot too, especially in the early phases. So I'm like, you know what parents it's probably best that you don't get attached to any ideas, but it is very immaterial to them what I do. and it's funny because my parents, we don't have the same kind of cross [00:10:00] cultural. divides, like I feel like my parents grew up in a very pretty similar way to how I did, but in a lot of ways, they didn't. Now that I think about it, I mean, the technologies that are available to us and the types of work that are available to us just were such a thing of the future to them.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah. No, I mean,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: yeah.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: having like dial up in our house, like they don't know what that was. I remember my brother and my, he's, he's a little bit older than me. And so he was like at the forefront of when tech stuff was happening and, and the internet was happening. And he was the guy who, who like put together computers and stuff like that.

So he was very much aware of, of tech and, probably why I even, Entertained it. Cause that's not what I was interested in when I went to, I thought I was going to do entertainment PR. so it totally went in a different direction, but my parents were, they, I remember they fought so much over the internet and him being online and with computers and, and tying up the phone line, I like when you picked up the phone and it was doing that DOS.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: I know dial up. I know, I know the tone. [00:11:00] Yeah.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: like, so, uh, that was a big challenge. And, and, My brother's like, wow, if dad just understood what I was doing, then we probably would have been made a lot more money than we have so far.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. It's interesting. Cause your father was an engineer, but he wasn't the type of engineer that your brother is. it's funny that there was still not that level of relatability.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Exactly. And his, he's, um, he's very like type a and mathematical my dad. if it didn't make logical sense, like to him, like if it wasn't a straight path, like he's very that much that guy and, and he's a baby boomer, so he's a little bit older. and so like for them, it's all about safety, path to, a good income and stability and stuff like that. So it's, it's very different. And when I decided to like run my own business, I didn't even tell them for a whole year because I was like, I'm not entertaining that conversation right now. I don't want to explain this to them.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: I know I was going to ask. I mean, I figure your, your father worked for someone else throughout the majority of his career, right? So I can imagine it's [00:12:00] inconceivable to think of your children. Not working for someone else. I mean, so many of our parents, my parents are, you know, boomers too.

They've worked for somebody their entire career. And that same, that same somebody for 30, 40 years and then retired. I remember when I was early in my startup career, the, the cadence was you switch jobs every two years, especially as a woman, if you wanted to make more money, you In all likelihood, you probably weren't going to get it from your current boss at your current company.

The way that you could really accelerate wealth is by switching jobs. And I would switch jobs every two years. And even that made my parents really nervous. Not to even mention kind of how much their minds are blown by what I do now, yeah, I think I can completely understand why that was something you wanted to covet from your family a little bit just because for them, I feel.

They're operating from a place of scarcity almost, when you're not operating from an abundance mindset, which is a very privileged place to operate from, if you have a lot of generational wealth, you [00:13:00] can operate from an abundance mindset. But if you're new to a country and you're like, to rebuild from scratch, taking risks, even calculated risks is incredibly threatening and starting your own business feels incredibly risky to people like your parents, right?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: he told me that like once I told him and and now today he always says like I could never do what you did Go out on my own and do the work because that would be the most scary thing. So he's, he says he's proud and I know he's worries a lot and he, his overlying message is always like, Oh, I need to make sure that you guys are okay and you guys are going to survive and you know, now I'm like way older and he's still worried about that, Yeah, that's, that's it's so weird.

Yeah. If you live, work for the same people for 20 years and, whatever, you know, whatever the amount of time was. And so that, yeah, it's not fathomable and agree with you. Same experience. When I got to a certain spot in my career, I think it was after like, My first four or five years, I did start jumping. that was the only way to [00:14:00] increase your salary. And, and there was a lot of opportunity. Um, so I had gone to the Silicon Valley and I went over there and they were like, what are you doing? him, mostly my mom is kind of adventurous. So she kind of didn't really care as long as I was making more money.

She was okay with it. But, my dad was like, Oh, but if you, if you keep jumping from job to job no one's going to hire you, you know, that kind of thing.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yep. Cause you're not loyal, right? I think parents really prioritize loyalty to companies and things like that too, which I think decades ago. Yeah. That absolutely. I think also if you're a certain type of person, again, we do see that certain people accrue more wealth in certain companies over times than others.

Right. But now that loyalty narrative is actually being pulled apart because of the socioeconomic climate we're in, the number of layoffs we're having, keeping your options open counterintuitively enough is actually the best way to de risk your career. Your parents think you're being risky by jumping, but.

Right. [00:15:00] taking those interviews, even when you have a stable job, maybe picking up a secondary stream of income, that's actually the best, most risk averse way to run your careers nowadays. Completely.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: seen some things on LinkedIn and that's probably more from founders and owners who are like, Oh, everyone's jumping ship. Like how can you hire someone if you don't know if they're going to stay? And I think, I think that's all about intention to like, what is their intention when they're working for you? Um, so I think there's a couple of different groups. I think there's the groups that are jumping around because they're, if they feel privileged and they could, they, they could kind of just. Do whatever whenever they want to. And then there's those that are looking for opportunity and chasing that opportunity.

So I think, I think there's two different ways of really looking at it because I mean, as a person who hires people, I get it. I do not. I don't necessarily love people who are jumping around, but if I see, if I understand why you're jumping around, then it makes a little bit more sense to me. Like if it's like, okay, we've, we've been together for [00:16:00] a year and you really want to pursue something else, then that's one thing.

But if you're someone who just can't keep a job, that's a whole different thing. concept.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. And like you said, seizing opportunity. I mean, I'm sure you can relate to that directly because I'm sure you were working for somebody else at the point where you decided to tell your boss at the time, I'm going to chase another opportunity, but that opportunity is me. I'm going to invest in myself now.

Yeah. in my own business.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: upset.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Really?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: was only there for a little bit of time. but I quickly, quickly saw, and, and it was a, it was a senior position, executive position, but I quickly saw that it wasn't really going anywhere and also the climate at the time. It was, what was it? 2011. the way that the climate was going for, I was at a big PR agency.

Whatever was happening at the time, like there wasn't much for me to do. And so that's, that's the other thing is I'm a very I need to do stuff. I need to be busy to feel like I'm contributing. Um, and that's really important to me. And so I wasn't really feeling like I was [00:17:00] contributing in the way that I could. that's actually what made me jump ship. It wasn't even like. I never had an intention of owning a business.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: that resonates so deeply with me because I, the majority of my career has been in startups, but I did do a three year stint at Facebook and that was incredible in so many ways. But like you mentioned, I wasn't making impact in the ways that I wanted to. And For the types of people I wanted to, I didn't feel like I was delivering value.

I felt like so much of the job was characterized by just different types of work and creating value for different types of people. And a lot of it was, you'll get with big companies, it's inevitable. You're going to get internal bureaucracy. You're going to get selling a lot more internally sometimes than you are externally.

And you know, I set out to do this job to make a very significant impact for very, Specific group of people. And I don't feel like I am channeling that here.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Absolutely. And I feel like [00:18:00] I did kind of feel like a token, you know, it was like, you're here for new business development, which is fine. I could do that. But that was the time where like people were starting to diversify their teams as well. and in PR, there was very much a straight demographic of, upper class white women, you know, it was that.

And so if you had men on your team, that was one bonus because men don't typically do PR or marketing. So that's, that's an interesting, like divergence from what people normally have. And then I was Indian and we were dealing with a lot of tech companies. So then you see, okay, there's a Indian, was categorized as hard work, work ethic, good work ethic. They know tech for some reason, cause we're Brown. I don't know. Um, so there was that category that I think I got put into as well. And so just to show also. When you show up with a team that has diversity in it, it kind of feels more interesting.

Right? So like you're showing up to a new business meeting with a diverse team. It feels like it's a little bit different than just having the [00:19:00] same cookie cutter team come in. And I think that was part of why I was so bored. I was just like sitting there doing nothing.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: right. Because for them, they only needed you in the room, right? It wasn't so much about what you could contribute to the conversation. It was just your, back that you were there in the first place. That's I can imagine that's incredibly demoralizing. I guess at what point did you realize that was what was happening that you were kind of ticking a box for them, but not really.

Providing values in the ways that you thought you were set out to do.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: So unfortunately it took me a really long time to learn this. I didn't realize it. When that was happening. because when growing up, I told you, my dad was a very, very hard worker, he was so focused on making it that he didn't really educate us about, any kind of discrimination. So that wasn't something that we talked about or it even came up. And so in my mind that didn't really exist. And so I didn't [00:20:00] really. Understand any of that part in business and he didn't know what I did anyway, so it's not like he's gonna say, Hey, there might be a point in your career where this happens.

so I think a little for a big portion of the time. I didn't really understand what was happening and I just kind of took it as like, whatever, you know, this is, this is the game that I'm playing, so I'm going to play the game the best I can. and so it took a, a quite a bit of time and I think it was until like, maybe I was Three or four years into my own business where I was like, Oh, you know what? If I look back at all the stuff that I've done now, these things are like lining up, making a little bit more sense. I can, I can see it in my own business.

I'm doing business development. Um, I can see it in how people, potential clients and people react to me, or even how employees react to me. Until I had ownership of the whole thing, I didn't really realize it. And I'm sure other people have different experiences, but because my parents were so focused on [00:21:00] just making it and not really. being able to convey the experience to us and I, maybe my dad also put on blinders. I don't know,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: yeah, I mean, I wanted to go back to this notion of language, like you saying you and your parents had different language. This is another example of your father didn't even have the language to evoke to you this experience, because even if he had this experience, the fact that he would know to even explain it to you as discrimination is one thing, right?

And so, Regardless of whether or not he had this himself, if he didn't share that with you, you're feeling that you're the only one having this experience because you have nobody else to corroborate what you're experiencing. you know, that's kind of the whole thing I'm setting out to do because so many people just don't, they're not validated by the immediate circles of people in their life.

Especially if you're in a field that your friends aren't in, if you're starting a business, but all your parents have been employees, you're close circle of friends and family, they're [00:22:00] looking out for you, And so the language that they choose to characterize your experience might be one of protecting your safety.

and that's great, but sometimes you just want somebody to empathize with what you're going through. And if you can't get that from your family, Your immediate circle, it can feel incredibly isolating. I just remember so many times feeling so deeply, deeply alone. And I'm sure that's what you felt and also doubting your experience.

Is it wrong that I'm feeling this way? Because nobody else has illuminated to me that they felt the same in this very situation.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Well, my, and my brother, my brother went to med school, so he had these very polarizing experiences in medical school and same thing, as an Indian medical student. in, in residency. And so like, we still like, even our parents weren't able to those messages that you're talking about.

So he had that same experience, different field, but you know, pretty, pretty big messages to be able to convey. um, Otherwise you do, you feel totally alone [00:23:00] and you're just like, is it me or is it them? I don't know. but you know, as you get older now, I mean, now that we're at this point and now that I'm at this age also, I'm now understand.

And then now this. Like this, uh, climate where everybody's trying to double think what's going on with everything. now everybody's a little bit more aware and I have kids, so I have to think about them. And so like, there's that whole thing of, okay, now I have people that I'm responsible for.

I don't want them to go through what I did. And, I want to make sure they understand that. they're going to probably be discriminated against at some point for whatever reason,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: And it's so tough, right? Because I've spoken to other parents about this and just women in tech in general, and it's such a delicate dance between you want to. Be cautious. You want to know the situations you could be entering into the perceived threats, the perceived challenges, but at the same time, you don't want to talk yourself out of doing it.

And [00:24:00] right, because I just, there's a lot of people who, because of the conceivable things that could happen to them, they decide that it's not worth pursuing at all. So I guess, how do you. Reckon with that. How do you tow this line of I know that there's going to be ways in which I'm underestimated, but for me, I feel that it's still the best possible option for me to pursue being in tech, being a business owner,

what is kind of the inner dialogue you're having to do it. Yeah. Even though there's all these ways in which it could go wrong.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah. I don't know, maybe it has something to do with my dad being so safe, you know, and I kind of went against that. I was like, okay, I don't want to do that. but I, I was just actually reading about and researching locus of control and that concept of internal external locus of control. And, and I think it's just my personality.

I'm so I wouldn't say I'm extroverted, but I I think I do have that internal locus of control where I realized very young. Some for some, [00:25:00] whatever reason I was like, no, you know, yes, all these bad things could happen, but if I don't try, it's never even going to be a possibility. And so I think I basically said if it's going to happen, I'm going to have to make it happen and no one's going to help me.

And so I think I just had that really early and I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to do it.

And what's the worst that can happen. That's the other thing I would ask myself, okay, I'll go get a job. If it doesn't work out, if being an entrepreneur doesn't work, I can get a job. I'm really good at working for other people. that's not a problem for me. but yeah, I think that's what it was.

It was just like the, okay, what's the worst that can happen. And then if I don't get it. No one's going to give it to me.

A lot of people are lucky to get things handed to them, but maybe if maybe they're not, maybe they don't know how to get things themselves. So I'm in a position where I Feel like I'm empowered to get everything. I, I would like to, I know I'm set back by certain things, but, um, it doesn't, I don't know if I think it's a personality trait.

I'm not sure if it's something you can develop you don't have it already.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: [00:26:00] I, I agree. No, I think there's certain people. in life that have received guarantees. They've received a level of assurance that certain things will happen for them despite how much of themselves they're putting into it. There's just certain things that are going to be afforded to them. Even going back to, Assuming that you're going to get into college and assuming that you're going to be able to pay for college, probably cause your parents are going to pay for it.

And assuming that after you graduate college, you'll have a job because of the college you went to and the pipeline that was built for you actually very early on by the high school you went to. There's certain people for which there's a predefined trajectory And I do find after speaking with a lot of different founders, a lot of founders that grew up without guarantees are the ones that know that they need to.

Enact certain things to make things happen for them because things are not just there's not going to be this divine intervention They're not entitled to anything because they haven't been for their entire lives. So that completely makes sense to [00:27:00] me

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: we probably started with the whole college thing because that's the thing with Indian kids. It's like, Oh, we're so smart. We're, you know, we're going to go to an Ivy league school. That was kind of the first test, right? For me, I am not a math person. I feel like I'm smart, but I don't think I was smart in school when I was young. And I think, that. Me not getting into an Ivy league school when I was, that first step was the first hurdle that I had to do like, okay, now what do you do if you don't do what it's expected, that was expected, what's the next thing? So I chose a career that I thought Oh, I think I could really do this.

So that was my first choice And then I had to follow through and make that happen, prove that that was gonna work,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: it is really powerful your ability to prove things to yourself over and over again Like you might have periods in your life where you think if this doesn't happen, there's no way I'm gonna achieve anything Why? But then to prove, I love proving other people [00:28:00] wrong, but what's even better is proving yourself wrong or proving to yourself that you're right.

Yeah, that you were capable of doing something. But like you said, the only way you can demonstrate that proof of concept is if you do it and if you try.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what happened. I, , did a iron man, like a half iron man, a couple of years. last year, I guess. I just want to know that I could do it and you know, that it takes a lot of training. So it's like, you have to be able to have that level of commitment and dedication and discipline. And, and part of that was just disciplining myself so that I could do other things I wanted to do.

It's not just about. That particular event. So then I realized from that training, I wow, you could really just do anything that you work for,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: yeah, it's really impressive. And I love that notion of you to yourself, what you're capable of in one facet of your life builds confidence in other facets of your life. And I think that's so important because so many people hang their hats on accolades at work. And that is the sole [00:29:00] determinant of their self worth, but that's so risky because speaking of locus of control, especially if you work for someone else, there's so much, you can't control in a corporate environment.

You have very little control over it. If you get promoted over some other person for a whole slew of reasons. but if you think of self worth outside, just the confines of work, and you look at the ways that you're keeping promises to yourself and achieving things you set out to do outside of work, you can build confidence in yourself.

In yourself within the context of work too, and maybe build enough confidence to leave that corporate job and build something for yourself like what you did.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Absolutely. I think, any little stepping stone will create that sense of confidence. And that's what it was about. It was about confidence and knowing Oh, I could do this, you know, if I try to do it.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah, I love it. It's incredibly inspiring. Okay. So we, so now we're at the point where you have started your own PR firm. tell me how that went in the early days, because now I know you're wildly successful, but the beginning of starting a business, know, you're going to make people, I [00:30:00] always laugh when people think you get into business ownership or starting a startup for the money, because I'm like, Oh, you're so sorely mistaken in the beginning, you're making the least amount of money you've probably made in your entire career.

So tell me about the early days of starting your firm and what led you to working with the type of clients you work with now.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: So, you know, I started in the coffee table. This is a very typical story, it's PR, so you don't need a lot of stuff. so the reason I started actually working with startups right away it was an opportunity I saw that maybe I probably haven't now that going back capitalize on enough, I saw the company that I was working with rejecting Startups because their budget wasn't big enough. And that's a huge thing in PR. If your budget isn't 10 grand a month, you know, you can't work with the nice PR agency. And so I was like, wow, they have three, three or 4, 000 a month. You know, they have 5, 000 a month. They have money. someone has to take it. so I basically left, um, with a few clients. I had, I had [00:31:00] accumulated like a few clients before I left. So there was a little security blanket. I was also working with another agency as a freelancer. So back then, doing some freelance work. And so I had a little like, little tiny portfolio of companies I was working for. And I would start entertaining these startups, these smaller companies that didn't have a budget for a 10, 000 a month agency, but had some money to give someone to help with content or PR or, was very organic. I thought I was going to freelance.

But then I was like, okay, well, now there's too much work. I can't do it. So I hired some people that I knew from previous jobs that, they got laid off or whatever I was like, Hey, do you want to come and do some freelance work with me?

And so it was just kind of almost like a freelance collective of people. and then I was like, okay, well, Now we could start getting some other work because people were now referring people to us And that's kind of how it grew. It was very, very organic. We started with an LA office, uh, very small in a, like a, it was very [00:32:00] gross. It was a very good, like it was one of those fashion buildings in downtown LA where they had like little tiny offices. There was cockroaches everywhere. And then, , eventually we moved to Long Beach, , and I had a nice office in downtown Long Beach for awhile. and so that was where it actually got more established and grew into an agency. And, um, I with those startups, I didn't, I didn't transition. I mean, I, I always had some enterprise clients that were maybe a little bit larger, in between, but it was always about those smaller companies that didn't have an opportunity to work with a big agency, but I have all that experience.

So I'm going to give you my agency experience and we're going to get the same results for smaller companies. And that's kind of how it started. And then we. Started doing Kickstarter and crowdfunding campaigns, and then that blew up. because we were able to serve that smaller set, we worked with the people that were emerging and then ever since then, just. Have been building on that. [00:33:00] Because we had that like nimbleness and like that scrappiness, , a lot of startups were attracted to us. And then I was like, Oh, we could be, then people started saying, Oh, you're a startup PR agency.

Like, it's just like, you learn as you go, but, , Yeah, I would have marketed us as a startup agency a long time ago, or I would have marketed us as a crowdfunding agency, but I didn't do any of that because I didn't know that was going to become a thing.

so Yeah, it did screw from there.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: It's such a nice way of kind of just smoothly transitioning into product market fit or service market fit, right? You, cause you really, you realize that there was this pole, there was this inbound coming from startups. And I think so much of that is because there was an unmet need in the market, which you saw firsthand at your other PR firms.

People weren't servicing these types of business owners, but they still had cash to deploy, which is great to hear too, because one of my questions was going to be. I mean, startups are the definition of risky business. A lot of them are not very cash flow positive, but you [00:34:00] saw that there are certain ones that have enough cash to invest in PR.

And because you saw that white space and because you saw that opportunity, you carved out a little niche there without even really realizing it. So,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: like hiring freelancers, like, Oh, we need a PR freelancer to hire this. So that's, that's what it was. It was them not necessarily hiring an agency. They, had the money to hire a freelancer. again, very inadvertent, right. It's almost like a happy accident, you know, it just, it was like that,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Okay, perfect. Well, I work at a startup. I speak with a lot of startup founders. Tell me more about working, the types of founders you work with, and what you, do for them.

I know a lot of startups are looking to raise money. I'm sure PR is a big components on the pathway to fundraising. Tell me at what stage you're getting involved and what are a lot of the startup founders you're working with? What are they looking for?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: question because I think a lot of startup founders don't know when to start PR, they asked me, is it too early? Is it too late? What is the good timing? So when you're early stage, [00:35:00] let's say seed stage of just raising your first funding, you're not really looking to get a PR agency.

That's first of all, you don't have the money for it. You have to raise money for your MVP. So focus on that, please focus on that. and the other thing I say is, Those stage founders, please think about messaging don't leave all the marketing planning till later, because starting the seeds of messaging and communication early is really key. Critical and vital to having successful PR and marketing later. And that's one thing that I've been teaching people. I mentioned to you earlier that, I have a podcast, it's called the PR playbook podcast, and it's basically for founders to do DIY PR and just start setting yourself, setting yourself up, and a lot of it is around thought leadership.

So I've been teaching a lot about thought leadership that's what I recommend for everybody. But we work with companies that are like Series a, that's when you really are ready to launch a [00:36:00] product, want it to shoot off and really gain some success. Sometimes some late seed stages that are still looking for investors, but then that's still that thought leadership phase.

It's where you're building thought leadership, trust in the brand, trust in the CEO, because that's what a lot of investors are investing in. They want to know the CEO is capable. And so I always tell people like, pick two or three things that you're an expert at and start. Writing about it, whether it's a blog, whether it's LinkedIn videos or posts. I was reading something on LinkedIn that said like only 2 percent of LinkedIn, audiences are creators. And so that's a huge opportunity for you to be posting your opinion. And I, and I see it all the time because I think I'm connected to a lot of those people, but I see a lot of those people who are doing thought leadership on LinkedIn, and that's actually great because a lot of investors live there.

Yeah. It's, it's

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yep.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: easy to get into tech crunch or venture beat or wall street journal to, to see investors. So, while you're working on that part, [00:37:00] you know, you might as well start on LinkedIn. You got to start small, whether it's a blog or medium or sub stack, there's so many platforms for people to start elevating their voice. But I think it's really about being intentional about the message. and it should be about your subject matter expertise and how, you know, Maybe how it ties to the business that you're working on. but I like to try to tell people to pick a subject matter expertise that they think it's going to be their expertise for a long time because then it can go from brand to brand too.

You don't have to just be with one company.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. Because what we know to be true is when you're a founder, you, your first business idea in all likelihood will not be you're the one that you raise money on, like do not get too attached to your ideas. And I think that's so critical that advice you're giving, focusing on. Personal branding, because the thing that's consistent behind these startups through time is the people who are building the businesses.

The ideas are going to evolve. You might need to pivot, but the thing that [00:38:00] is going to be that consistent through line is who you are and why you're building and maybe for whom you want to serve with your business. So I love that advice. I also really love the advice that you're giving early stage founders to DIY it themselves initially and to do it for free.

And this is why this is so critically important because I have worked with a lot of advertising agencies. I've worked in ad tech for the majority of my career. I was at Facebook and I worked with, I partnered with a lot of agencies and. I'm sure maybe there's some PR agencies that do this as well, but a lot of advertising agencies tells very early stage brands, Oh, you want to get profitable, start running ads,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: start putting money behind it,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: start spending money with us.

And that will scale your business. And there's some financial fundamentals that just need to be in place in order for that to even make sense. And it is. Irresponsible to tell small businesses to put money behind marketing promotional strategy. If they don't even know that their business has legs to run on yet in a [00:39:00] financially viable way.

So I love that you're telling, I mean, I'm sure you probably tell certain startups you're too early to work with us. establish this baseline, get traction, get proof of concept for your business. And then once you start to accrue capital in a profitable way. Yes. And come work with us because then you're set up for success with that client.

I'm sure the last thing you want to do is start working with the client and then they burn cash

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I've

worked with those clients and it's, it's no good for us and it's no good for them. Like they don't, they put all their eggs into the BR basket. That's just not good. And if I knew you were giving me all your money, then I wouldn't have taken it.

it's not a good idea to do that. I think it's, Like you said, you need to have proof of concepts. I think when you do a PR agency, you need to pretty much be ready to launch and, have a website. don't come to me without a website. Uh, you need to have some of these things in place.

Of course. if your goal is to create content for that website and create messaging and have that exercise, then yes, of [00:40:00] course, engage a PR agency to help you with that exercise, but know that that's what you're doing. Not Hey, I'm going to go. Fly off into the media, because what happens when you get media coverage? The goal is really to attract attention. If you can't manage that attention, once you've got it, what's the point? and I talked to actually a brand the other day and I told them, Hey, if we do get media coverage, how are you going to handle the flow? How are you going to handle the funnel?

If you don't have a marketing person, know if this is a good idea because we're getting media coverage, but then I'll still look like I failed because you don't have anything for them to do afterwards.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. When you were talking about not having the right systems in place, I think about a facsimile is when a creator that maybe has a small brand goes viral.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Oh, yeah.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: On tick tock or viral on Instagram, and then they don't have their Shopify store set up. So there's not a way that they can manage all of this product demand and they're running out of inventory or they go viral, [00:41:00] but they don't have a way of capturing email.

So people,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Yeah.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: everybody sees your video, but you don't have any, none of that customer data is within your arsenal. There's no way that you can reach those people again. So it's, That is, I love that you're setting these brand owners up for success early so that when they do get those pushes, they can really leverage them I know you mentioned to me, Rangini, that you work with a lot of marginalized startup founders, can you speak to me a little bit about the experience working with those founders and. barriers to entry or barriers to continuity that they're facing in the startup realm and how you kind of usher them through that,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: really good example. Um, the, we work with a Hispanic, Startup founder and and his story is so amazing and he tells me he has a twin , so if he hears this podcast, he'll know i'm talking about him. But he has a twin and he told me this story about how when he was growing up.

He had a single mother they're hispanic and his mom said saved up all this money to get them a computer. he's in my [00:42:00] age bracket. So this is when computers were very early and like, it wasn't common to have a computer in your home. So it's probably pretty expensive to get that computer. And he said computer like set them up for their career. And he's a CEO and founder of his company. And so he's really championing that thing for other. minorities and, and the Hispanic community as well, right? Like specifically, the Mexican American community. But I think, that act of his mom buying that computer, getting it in the home, that was a huge deal.

And not a lot of people have that kind of foresight and access. I think she was a nurse. So I think she was able to afford that, you know, and, and even then she probably had to work really hard to get it. And, and so it's really a parental duty for us, To set our kids up. And if we don't have that foresight and a lot of kids don't have parents that maybe are thinking down the future or thinking that way, then it's really hard for a minority or [00:43:00] disadvantaged youth to get those legs up.

And so then now this, this group of founders that are now emerging from that effort, now we're trying to say, okay, how do we enable other? Youths of our background or of even just disadvantaged backgrounds or people who just don't have access. Right? And so, I actually recently established a nonprofit called the social equity council.

And the goal is, create resources for people who don't know what they don't know. we don't. Always know what we need. But, um, but what it is is really to enable people with the resources, the knowledge, the money, there's so much stuff that goes into this that wasn't available to us.

And so I think the founders now that are of those minority groups you know, we're, we're, we want to pay it forward it's like having a child, you want to give them the opportunities that you didn't have. And so I think there's going to be a lot more opportunities, for people who have been marginalized in the past that, As people get to [00:44:00] higher status, um, and I wouldn't say I'm at a really high status, but I'm thinking now that way, like, right, how do I pay it forward for my kids? How do I make it easier for them?

So my daughter's in an entrepreneur class. She didn't want to do this shark tank thing. I made her submit something in shark tank at school.

I'm like, trust me, you're gonna, you're going to be happy that you won that iPad later. so, you know, it's like enabling them and giving them that inspiration, even though they don't know that they need it,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: And it's also modeling the behavior. I think that's why it's so, so critical to, , like you said, having children and then having your children see that you're an entrepreneur, because it's one thing to hear, listen to a podcast of an exited founder who is a person of color or a female founder, but it feels so distant and it feels so Inconceivable when they're so far away, but having somebody that, you know, who was able to do this makes it so much more.

It converts it from an impossibility to a possibility and talk [00:45:00] is cheap, right? But when you see

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: cause I love like Sarah Blakely and I like love following her and I love her story,

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: No.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I'm like, Oh, but she has a multimillion dollar company. I don't know anything about when she started. I know the story, but it's so hard to connect with someone who's so far ahead of you, you know?

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: And that, that's we started this because the reality is, and you know this to be true, like businesses take time. And a lot of that time, particularly in the early days is not glamorous. It's not headline worthy. It's not going viral on social media. And I think there is, speaking of modeling behavior and showing someone what is not even what is possible, but what is the reality before all of the crazy other side of the rainbow accolades?

You know, for me as a founder and you know, let me know if you feel the same, but hearing people talk about the stagnation, the hard stuff, the rejection, the needing to pivot, but seeing them still in it, seeing them be like, but this is the process. No, this is the job. This is actually, yeah.

And. It's not [00:46:00] any indication of you being a bad founder. This is the job of being a founder. And the job of being a founder is being modeled right now by very successful people. And I feel like that is such a limited representation of what it actually is to be a founder,

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: you know, when I deal, deal with people who are doing crowdfunding, I even have to tell them that, and I always say , you know, you see the crowdfunding campaigns that are really successful, that's only 5 percent of them, 5 to 10 percent of crowdfunding campaigns are really successful. Everybody else didn't make their goals. You're not seeing that you're only seeing the really highlighted ones.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Yeah. Well, thank you for helping me show a different story. . So Ranjanee, can you share a little bit more? Because again, we are an audience of startup founders. Can you share more about your firm, your nonprofit, and then, if folks want to get in touch, what's the best way of them getting in touch with you?

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: Um, so my firm is the silver telegram, PR agency for tech Um, you can find us at the silver telegram. com. and also I'm all over [00:47:00] LinkedIn. I'm really easy to find it's run genie at the silver telegram. com. The social equity council is a nonprofit. Um, we're still working on getting the board together.

So if you are interested, if you're a founder, if you have a passion for enabling others, then, reach out to me either on LinkedIn or I'm, I'm available.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: And she did. Wow. And you managed that all before the sneeze. That's really impressive.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: felt, I felt it building. I felt it both.

abby_8_10-03-2024_110708: Oh my God. A true PR expert at work. I can see it now. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Ranjini. You've left our audience with so much practical advice, but I think so much inspiration. And I personally feel incredibly motivated to continue to challenge yourself because if you're able to meet those challenges, you are building such an inner confidence to go out and do the next thing. And, I just love, I just love that whole sentiment. So thank you so much.

ronjini-joshua_2_10-03-2024_080708: I love being here.

Thank you for listening to the marginal podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the team at Reb science, with theme music by [00:48:00] Siddhartha. You can find full episode show notes@marginalpodcast.com and follow us at marginal podcast on Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

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